We recently had the pleasure of being interviewed by Tim on the Kickin’ It Old School blog, where we reflected on the past, present and future of all things Nu Shooz. Within this interview, we discuss topics such as the inception of “I Can’t Wait”, what inspires us today — and just about everything in-between. We hope you enjoy the journey as much as we have.
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Kickin’ It Old School: How did you & John meet each other? Was there immediate chemistry between you two? When did you start performing music together? Were you married previous to forming Nu Shooz?
John R. Smith: No, it wasn’t love at first sight. It took about a month…after that I knew we’d be together forever. (Awwwww!)
Valerie J. Day: We met at a communal household in Portland OR. John was hitchhiking back from Olympia WA (to L.A.) and met one of the people who lived there when they were both stuck on the same freeway onramp. We didn’t start performing together until about four years later. I finally proposed after we’d been together seven years. He would never have thought of it!
KOS: At what point and how was Nu Shooz officially formed? How and why was that name chosen for the group? What were your expectations and goals when you started out?
JRS: Valerie and I were part of the ethnic music scene in Portland Oregon in the late ’70′s…this was before they called it ‘World Music.’ She was studying congas, and I wanted to be an arranger. We went to music school together for a year. At the same time we were hanging around a Calypso band called Felicidades. Eventually, they let me play piano even though I wasn’t very good, and I started writing songs and arranging for them. This was around 1977. Felicidades had a horn section. After that I always had to have horns. Felicidades started to phase out around ’78. I took a trip to New York. I thought I was hot s**t, you know, and I was going to be ‘discovered.’ So, like a lot of people, I got my butt kicked artistically and went back to P-Town with my tail between my legs. But I did figure out that I was done with Latin music. I’m not from Cuba. I wanted to do something American. During that same trip I got to see some early punk, at the Mudd Club and all that, and I thought, this sucks! I hated punk and thought maybe there were other people like me, who dug Philly Soul and Disco and Tower of Power. So I went back to Portland determined to do something American…a soul band. Nu Shooz was started by myself and Larry Haggin, who was the lead singer in Felicidades. Our first gig was June 21st 1979, as a four piece. And I have to tell you…we pretty much sucked. Larry left in 1980 and I added four horns, then we were off and running. As for the name, it was chosen in desperation because we needed something to put on the poster. Jim Hogan, our original bass player, was responsible for the spelling. He was a rocker and thought it looked more ‘rock.’
KOS: Please take us back to when “I Can’t Wait” was conceived and written. What is the backstory and what inspired the song? How long did it take to write? How did the core melody get developed?
JRS: By 1981 we were a nine-piece band and we were one of the hot bands in town. Portland circa 1981 was the best music city on Earth. There were so many places to play, and rent was cheap. Anyway, I worked day and night trying to keep four hours of material fresh. (An impossible task.) I evolved a system where I worked on new songs in batches of ten, and tried to have two completed every week for rehearsal. Wrote a lot of awful, embarrassing songs. My old bandmates still kid me about them. Some of the stuff I wrote makes me cringe to this day. Anyway, I got a four-track recorder around 1983, a sturdy old Teac 3440, and really started cranking them out. ‘I Can’t Wait’ was part of the first reel of tunes written on the new four-track. It was a thing I’d been hearing in my head. It could have gone a lot of different ways, and maybe we wouldn’t be having this conversation now.
KOS: Were the lyrics the last part added? What is the intended meaning of the song? Or as the song says, “Tell me what it’s all about.”
JRS: I scrabbled out the lyrics on the kitchen table in fifteen minutes as the band was loading their gear in for rehearsal. Flashed the piece of paper at Valerie and said, “How’s this?” Valerie said, “Fine.”
KOS: When you first recorded it in the summer of 1984, did you feel you had something special? How did it feel when you first heard it on the local Portland radio?
JRS: Out of all the songs we were recording, that one sounded the most real. For a song to work it has to be right for the singer, and the band…all of these factors have to come together. So yeah, I knew it was the best thing on the record, but you can never know what’s going to be a ‘hit.’ All these other factors come in play, mostly having to do with the business.
VJD: I’ll never forget the first time I heard it on the radio. I was driving in my car heading eastbound on Weidler St. in Portland. I even remember the intersection! The song came on Z100. I started singing along and then had the realization that I was SINGING ALONG WITH MYSELF on the radio. It was crazy and wonderful and I wanted to roll down the window and shout out to the world about what had just happened.
KOS: I saw this in your timeline for the Fall of 1985: Warner Bros. Records extends a demo deal to Nu Shooz, but passes on the band soon afterward, stating “We’ve already got Madonna.” What else can you tell us about this? Were they actually comparing your sound to Madonna’s?
JRS: No, they were basically trying to blow us off. In those days, Warner Bros. had this thing they’d do. If you got high enough up the A&R ladder and they wanted to blow you off, they’d give you a Demo Deal.
VJD: We always figured the thing about Madonna was just something for them to say.
KOS: Please tell us about how the Dutch remix version by Pieder “Hithouse” Slaghuis impacted the song and band’s ultimate success. Did it lead directly to Atlantic Records signing Nu Shooz to a recording contract?
JRS: Pieder’s remix made it a hit. The first time I heard it we were on the road, down in Southern Oregon. I liked it right away because he did things I never would have thought of, not in a million years. We brought him to New York to work on a couple other songs. Meeting him was strange, because he didn’t speak English, and he had these weird guys with him. Even so, he taught me some awesome tape cutting tricks.
KOS: Finally, in February of 1986, “I Can’t Wait” is released as a single. It reaches #1 on the Dance chart by the end of March. It would peak at #3 on the Billboard Hot 100 by June and become one of the biggest songs of that year. How did it feel to finally hit it big with this great song? Could you have ever anticipated the success it would end up having? What changed for you personally and for Nu Shooz after the huge success of this single? Were you prepared for all of the attention by this point?
JRS: When our ‘overnight success’ happened, we had been playing four hours a night five or six nights a week for seven years! We were road warriors! So we could get up there and play. What we weren’t prepared for was the Entertainment Industry. I’ll tell you, there’s a lot of things I’d do differently now, but that’s not the rules of the game. You get one shot, and you’d better be ready.
KOS: [I ask this in most of my interviews] When you have a mega hit song like that, do you (or did you) ever get sick of playing it? What are your feelings about the song today 25 years later?
JRS: No, I’m proud of that song. It still sounds fresh and funky 25 years later. What’s gotten a little boring is that it seems to be all people are interested in. That used to really overheat my circuit boards. Now I realize that’s SHOW BIZ, baby. They don’t call it Show ART. Musically I’ve moved way past synth pop. When I listen to music at all, mostly I like the French Impressionist composers like Ravel and Debussy, and film score guys like Max Steiner. That’s what winds my clock now. Oh yeah, and 60′s psychedelia like ‘Incense and Peppermints.’
VJD: After all the years of playing in relative obscurity, it felt great to have an original tune that people would actually come up and sing to US! They still do by the way. After all these years, it’s like “I Can’t Wait” has it’s own career. We’re grateful – and astonished by it’s staying power.
KOS: The music video for “I Can’t Wait” was directed by Jim Blashfield who has created so many great music videos over the years. First, how did you decide to work with Blashfield on your video? How was the concept developed? Can you give us your take on the meaning and some of the symbolism used in the video?
VJD: We were so fortunate to get hooked up with Jim. He’s an original in every sense of the word. Turns out he completely improvised the whole video shoot. There’s a great article written about the “making of” that you can check out if you’re interested. Here’s the link: http://www.nushoozmusic.com/index.php/i-cant-wait-the-video-what-is-it-all-about/
I got to work with Jim again recently for a show I created called “Brain Chemistry For Lovers” (www.brainchemistrylovers.com) about the neuroscience of romantic love. He created the video portion of the show, edited the script, and directed. He’s the best. It was really fun to get to work with him again after all these years.
KOS: Your videos received frequent airplay on MTV at that time which certainly helped to increase exposure and popularity. What are your thoughts on the impact that MTV had on music in the 80s? Also from an image and marketing point of view?
JRS: Is there anyone alive who remembers when MTV played music? Check it out. What kind of crazy world are we living in when MTV plays reality shows, and the History Channel does a series about long haul truckers? When I heard there was going to be a video music channel, silly me, I’m thinking I’m gonna get to see Louie Jordan, Miles Davis, then Hendrix at Woodstock, then maybe some Rick James. Instead, it went it’s serpentine way, and changed music forever. I swear to God I felt it from the stage! Back in nineteen-eighty-whatever, the day MTV went on the air, audiences got more passive.
VJD: On the other hand, it added a whole new dimension to the music experience. I’ve always been into working the space where different art forms intersect. Not that all music videos are art, but so much creative collaboration between visual artists, filmmakers, animators, and musicians happened because of MTV. And for a while there, those artists even got paid to do it.
KOS: Your follow-up single “Point of No Return” did not have the same success, but it did top the Dance charts again and reached the top 30 of the Billboard Hot 100. What is the backstory and inspiration for this song? What are your feelings regarding this single?
JRS: Well, Point of No Return wasn’t as well crafted of a song, (Not that ‘I Can’t Wait’ is ‘Firebird Suite’ or anything) and the same care wasn’t put into the recording. I always felt like it was never finished. Hey…it got to No. 28, higher than some of my favorite songs. Higher than ‘Papa-Oo-Mao-Mao.’ We did a new version of it on Pandora’s Box and it came out cool.
VJD: I like (The Return Of) Point Of Not Return better too.
KOS: Who did you tour with back in the 80s? Any particular stories or memories from while out on tour back then?
JRS: Morris Day and the Time, Billy Ocean, Tina Turner, The Pointer Sisters, The Fat Boys blew us off the stage in Minneapolis. They also ate all the bread.
VJD: We played 70 cities in 71 days. I mostly remember trying to find food after the gig and trying to get my gig clothes cleaned on our one day off. Ah yes… the glamorous life!
KOS: Please discuss the circumstances surrounding Atlantic in 1992 and why your third album for them was not released at that time. Did this lead to the temporary break-up/hiatus for Nu Shooz? At that time, did you feel like Nu Shooz would ever record again? Will the Eat & Run album ever be released? Then in 2007, what made it the right time to reform the group? What were your goals and expectations this time around?
JRS: There’s a lot of turnover at record labels. We probably spent too much time making the third record. By the time it was done, the people who signed us were long gone. So there was nobody at Atlantic who cared about us. By then, we were tired of submitting songs to deaf ears. And we were not trying to make another I Can’t Wait, which of course, is what they wanted. By 1988 I wanted to write songs like Lowell George (Little Feat). We aren’t going to release Eat & Run, which we don’t own, but there were so many songs that came out of those four years, and we’re going to release a batch of them this summer. The album will be called ‘Kung Pao Kitchen.’
VJD: In 2006 we released a slowed down jazz/soul acoustic version of ‘I Can’t Wait’ to celebrate it’s 20th anniversary. It was a chance to put new clothes on the song and record it with a bunch of our favorite jazz musicians in town. We had a great time doing it, and the response was positive – so we decided to do more. That’s how the NU SHOOZ Orchestra came into being.
KOS: [I also ask this in all of my interviews] Some 80s pop superstars “run away” from the 80s and some embrace the success and fans from that decade. (If at all) How do you personally deal with and keep the 80s alive and in perspective?
JRS: Let me say first of all that I always thought the shoulder pads were heinous. I loved the eighties, except maybe for Ronald Reagan. A lot of the culture seemed silly even at the time. Go watch ‘Road Warrior.’ We had a great time in the ’80′s, a fabulous time, but we were total misfits, alien jazz hippies landed in a world of plastic fashion. We came out of the Jazz and Latin scene of the ’70′s. So we weren’t punk rockers who discovered synthesizers, or new wave pop tarts. We were listening to Coltrane and Charlie Parker, and the Fania All-Stars, and then- Bam!- we’ve got this popular dance band. I have nothing but gratitude for the legions of fans who love ‘I Can’t Wait’. They’ve made my music career possible, but no way could I keep sounding like I did when I was 25. It’s not even possible.
KOS: I have to ask you about being married and working together like you do. Has this ever been a challenge? Has it gotten easier or harder over the years? Are your accomplishments even sweeter since you shared the experiences and conquered them together? It certainly is unusual for a couple like you to make it work for so long (and also something I certainly admire). If you don’t mind me asking, what is the secret to maintaining both your professional and personal relationship at the same time? Are they separate or one in the same?
JRS: I adore this girl. That’s the secret to a long relationship. I’m just as thrilled as I was back in ’75. How could a guy like me end up with a girl like that? Miracles do happen. Working together has gotten easier over the years. Part of it was that we both went out and did our own things after the Shooz. Valerie became a jazz singer. I scored films and commercials. So when we came back together to make Pandora’s Box, we had both lived a lot more.
VJD: The secret? Mutual admiration, respect, and a sense of humor – which John has in abundance. I always felt lucky to be with someone who’s a musician too. It’s not always easy working together, but it’s worked because we understand what the motivation to do this crazy thing is all about.
KOS: After over three decades in the business, from your perspective, how has the music industry changed over that time? How do you see the future?
JRS: We live in a time when everybody can create, and that’s good in a way, but it also means that the audience is fragmented. Everyone’s plugged into the Internet and the iPod. It’s harder to get people’s attention these days. You know, I could go on a rant about the modern world, but who cares. Let me tell you about a conversation I had with my son today. I said, “I wonder what the next big thing is going to be, the thing we can’t even see now? Think about it. Back in the 30′s and 40′s, in the swing band era, they wouldn’t have dreamed of rock and roll, or 70′s funk, or hip-hop.” And I think we’re ready for a new thing because frankly, hip-hop is tired. If you think about it, it really hasn’t gone anywhere in twenty years. The best stuff is still Grandmaster Flash, Public Enemy, Whodini…but you know, I’m tired of hearing people talk over music. I’m like, “shut up already! What’s the new thing?” I actually like the music my son listens to. He’s into Linkin Park and Tool, bands like that. There’s some real innovation going on in the world of Nu Metal.
KOS: How have your priorities changed over the years compared to back in the 80s? How has this affected your music, if at all?
JRS: I thought I’d have a band when I was sixty years old. (Not there yet.) I’d love to be out there playing still, but it’s not my dream to be up there chunkin’ out the oldies. I call it the Elephant Graveyard. That said, I understand that the music you grew up with will always be important, and it’s an honor that we were able to make a permanent piece of pop culture. Listen, people get into music for different reasons. We take the personality we were born with and run with it, right? I always lived to hear my band play whatever the newest song was that I just wrote. What’s my favorite song? The next one.
VJD: We have a 15 year old son. I read once that when the opera singer Renee Fleming met with opera diva Jessye Norman that Jessye told her to have children, that it would help to put her career in the proper perspective because performing wouldn’t be the only thing that she would live for or die for. Our son has been an incredible influence on us, both personally and professionally. He’s a wonderful artist and human being. I think we both feel like his presence in our lives has given us a new perspective on what life is really all about.
KOS: Nu Shooz just released a new album, Pandora’s Box, in 2010. What are your feelings regarding this album? Can we continue to expect more new music from Nu Shooz? What inspires you to continue writing and recording new music after all these years? Where do you feel that Nu Shooz fits within the contemporary musical landscape?
JRS: Well, the obvious answer is that Nu Shooz has endured. As of this writing, I Can’t Wait plays somewhere on earth every 11 minutes, and that’s just radio. That’s not counting iPods and YouTube. We’ve been sampled by the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost! Naughty By Nature, Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis, some jazz girl in Italy, NuFuture in London. Most recently, a rapper named MANN wrote a great song called “I’m Buzzin’” over the ‘I Can’t Wait’ rhythm track and then 50 Cent did a remix of it. I dig it. As for us, we’re going to continue making music. We’ve never stopped.
KOS: What else are Valerie Day and John Smith each up to now? Musically and otherwise?
JRS: Our son Malcolm is an amazing artist. He’s the talented one in the family. I’m working on a graphic novel called Evolution, a 16-volume epic. And of course, there’s that whole batch of Eat & Run-era songs to throw in the oven, and they will ultimately be released on ‘Kung Pao Kitchen’, due this August.
VJD: I’m on a quest to become a better musician and improviser. There’s always something more to learn – that’s what makes music (and life) so interesting! I get to play and perform with some incredible jazz musicians and am looking forward to making more records with them. I’m also working on taking Brain Chemistry For Lovers (that concert/cabaret/science lecture about the neuroscience of romantic love I mentioned earlier) to the next level and have become a neuroscience geek in the process. And I can’t wait (sorry, no reference to a certain song intended) to make the next Nu Shooz Orchestra album and see what happens next.
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This interview can also be found on the Kickin’ It Old School blog here.
